Curse

Archadus · Jun 20, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

These are just suggestions from a relative newb to Guild Wars. These are things I have noticed just from the few weeks I have been playing it. I'm not a newb to MMO's and I understand that I don't know a lot about the end game, so don't worry, I won't be commenting on it.

1. Collision System - By far this is the worst collision system of any game I have ever played, both MMO and console. You should be able to walk through non aggro mobs just as you walk through other players. Putting mobs you have no need to fight in a tunnel is just an annoyance. Also, the "walls" in the enviornment are badly placed and oddly shaped. They also cause mini warps at time that again, provide an annoying factor. You should be able to cut some small corners and walk over small rocks. This is minor, but I think it is annoying enough to need fixing. I still think this is a great game, even if they ignore this.

2. Hate Control - Maybe I am just imagining this, but the mobs seem to attack randomly. You can be standing there, not healing or attacking, and the mob will move off of the player who is healing and attack and come after you. This make absolutely no sense. What is the point of more armor, hp, and a shield if you can't really tank? They should give an aura effect of higher hate generation and/or some taunts to control hate in the tactics ability list. Warrior abilities are sometimes effective only if you are getting hit, and if you can't control who is getting hit, not only do you lose effectiveness as a warrior, but you will be the last to die. On that note, they may want to give all jobs access to the res signet at all times since you can't force the warrior to be the first to die and let the remainder of the party take the mob out then res the warrior.

3. Attack System - This is just purely a suggestion, but would make things more streamlined. They should make a left mouse click be a targeting and a right mouse click an attacking/run to. I know about the shift click, but you might as well make the right mouse button do something, and this would be an easier system anyway.

I know some of these ideas are from other MMO's, but if it isn't broke, you don't need to fix it. I like how the game has moved away from a lot of the standard MMO thinking, and these are all minor issues. They may have been brought up before, but I think they need to get fixed and I don't see them stickied anywhere. Please give some suggestions or approvals, no flamers please, you waste everyones time.

Thanks

Aaaaagh · Jun 20, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

1. I disagree that you should be able to walk through...well anything. Not being able to walk through players/mobs makes the game much more strategical. I do agree that the zone walls are really messed up, actually it's my biggest complaint in the game.

2. I do think that warriors should have a few skills that 'taunt' a mob to attack them, but I also think you can use your first observation, collision system, to control mobs as well. They do need some type of 'agro scale' though, so that mobs attack less randomly.

3. Targeting with a mouse click, HELL YES. Then I could effectively eat my ice cream and play at the same time.

Gs-Cyan Bloodbane · Jun 20, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

The mobs tend to attack the easiest target.

usually thats the least armored and least health character. But if a character is just standing aroudn doing nothing and is a sitting duck... .well then if your not gonna fight the creature figures it can kill you easy. Read the manuscripts the charr went after the weakest. its a hint on how the monsters will behave

Jab · Jun 20, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

I've had mobs run right at the healer , attack her 4 times while she runs around in a circle, then without warning switch to a warrior or mage.

Deathlord · Jun 20, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

2. I think they should just make it so that the /taunt emote would maybe have a 50% chance of making enemies attack you.

Goonter · Jun 20, 2005, 08:41 PM // 20:41

You wouldnt be able to use a taunt skill in pvp. That doesnt mean it couldnt happen, but, the rest of the skills in the game have both pve and pvp potentual.

What has been 100% effective (so far) in my experance is good pulling. Everyone that isnt a puller or tank to not even attack or use a skill and stay far out of aggro range until the mob is pulled and focused on attacking the tank. After the attack has begon everything will aggro the closest target, either the tank or puller (maybe a spirit).

Rangers that pull should use a longbow and then run far behind the tank if he doesnt want to tank and/or to not pull aggro to the rest of the team behind the tank.

Warriors that pull and tank should make sure they are up front and everyone else is way back. Step into aggro range of your target and run back far enough to not draw unwanted mobs, but not so far back as to bring the rest of your team into aggro range.

[Edit] This doesnt work against foes that pop up like devourers. Otherwise, its very effective.

squakMix · Jun 20, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

You can bind most of this stuff in controlls I think...

Archadus · Jun 21, 2005, 03:13 PM // 15:13

I tried to bind my mouse buttons, but I could not find a way to bind mouse clicks at all.

As far as pvp is concerned with taunts, not many games have found a way to do it. That is why I suggest if they implement taunts, to have it function in pvp by forcing any player who is taunted to select the taunter and not be able to change targets for a duration of time based on points in tactics.

The only reason I found out a mob will attack someone who is doing nothing is because I was attempting to show a friend an ability, and when I was the only one actively using abilities, the mob moved off me to him. But, yes, he was the softer target, being lower level and having much less armor, so that may be why. The problem I have is that I could not pull the hate off him to save my (or his) life. No one died in this situation, but I can see how in a more intense combat, that would be an issue if a warrior CAN'T pull the hate off the healer. That is basically all I think they should have in this game, is a way to stop the mob from attacking for a period of time so you can kill him before he can kill your healer and probably only reser.

Goonter · Jun 21, 2005, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Heres a neat trick that not to many people seem to know. If your being attacked and dont want to be - run towards a stationary alley and keep running. What will most likely happen is your attacker will stop chasing you and start attacking the non moving target.

Im not sure if this is hundred percent effective, but Ive used this trick many times brushing off enemies to warriors or spirits with much success.

Heres the problem with that though. If your running your not helping. The time it takes to brush an enemy off could be the life or death of yourself or a teammate. Also, if you try to brush an enemy off to an alley that is already under heavy attack, you could just brush him off and pull another enemy.
So if your going to brush an enemy, evaluate the situation quickly and do it carefully.

Team based PvE requires as much planning for success as pvp does when you get to into sticky situations. Tarran and alley positioning and formations are just as imperitive to your success as your skills you bring with you. It is the difference in controlling mobs and fighting mobs off with a hope of winning.

So I really feel that taunt is a unnessacry skill for this game. Whats happening is people fail at controlling mobs, and reflect on how in other games a taunt command helped control mobs. I believe this game is outside of that box.

If an enemy chooses to attack you while you are out of aggro range and are not using an attack or skill to pull him, then I think this is a bug. Ive seen this happen a few times, but I believe its not supposed to this way.

Lastly, if a taunt skill was in the game its pvp use would hurt a lot of players if it caused forced targeting. I hope if Anet decides to bring taunt into the game they find another way to make it useful in pvp.

Heres something Ive seen warriors do that surprising works in pvp from time to time. To actually taunt in the chat channel during the match countdown. Warriors would say things like, "LOG OUT NOOBS OMFG YOUR A WASTE OF TIME" And then, everyone on the opposing team will chase and attack the person who is so arrogent to put him in place, all the while falling for his mind game.

KuTeBaka · Jun 21, 2005, 08:44 PM // 20:44

body blocking! your tanks should be in the front and healers in the back. the tanks should be able to block off the enemies from reaching the healer.

Lewick · Jun 21, 2005, 09:26 PM // 21:26

For getting a mob off one of my healers, I go and attack the mob. The healer simply needs to slowly pull away from the mob (not run.) This seems to work every time for me. I use it all the time with henchmen when the mob decides to smack me instead of Stefan.

For the attack system, yeah left click auto attack is kind of annoying. However, my left hand never waggles from the A/S/D/W keys, so I got into a habit long ago of just flipping my pinky down to shift and targeting that way. Unfortunately there's a bug in there somewhere that sometimes requires 2 clicks for it to work. I also sometimes left click then hit S immediately to target.

Finally, the collision system in GW is definitely as bad as any game I've seen. From a realism perspective, I can kill a 2-headed hydra that's shooting meteors at me, but I can't jump down a 3 foot step in order to get down a small incline? That always made me laugh, particularly in some of the areas around Crystal Desert. I realize they put the barriers there to make folks do things the hard way, but it just seemed kind of...dumb.

Stauf · Jun 21, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31

I think body blocking is fine. Though I would like to say please please please make it so our OWN pets don't block us. That's just ridiculous. You're own allies don't block you, why should your pets? Right now they just get in the way.

Archadus · Jun 22, 2005, 05:32 AM // 05:32

I like the body block idea, that seems to fit better into the combat system then a taunt. It would have a similar effect, but require more skill and communication than a simple taunt. Only problem I can think with that is it wouldn't fix the problem for large groups of mobs unless the ability could work for anyone behind you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lewick

From a realism perspective, I can kill a 2-headed hydra that's shooting meteors at me, but I can't jump down a 3 foot step in order to get down a small incline?

Good point...but you know, a twisted ankle is far worse then a meteor strike to the head.

Also, I think the clicking problem could be most easily fixed by simply allowing us to bind commands to mouse clicks to customize our mouse, not just our keyboard. Then people who like the controls as is would be happy, as would I with my right click attacking, left click targeting.